I had the pleasure of speaking with Sabrina Merage Naim and Kassia Binkowski, the hosts of the new podcast Breaking Glass about women in media. I shared my thoughts on equity and how we might get there, and the responsibility that I believe women in positions of power have to drop the ladder behind them as they move up by mentoring and advocating for other women to advance. We dug deep into some of the stories I recounted in my book Becoming a Dangerous Woman. We talked about what it was like for myself and other women working in media in the 1970s and 1980s, the progress we’ve made, and the better outcomes we see when women are equal players in the workplace, in the boardroom and in politics.

Here’s an excerpt from our conversation. Listen to the podcast above to hear it all!

Kassia Binkowski: Over the course of your career you were the first woman to lead PBS and CNN, you've been nominated for Academy Awards, you've won Emmys. The list goes on and on and on and your risks have truly paid off. You made a name for yourself in a male dominated industry since that time. I'm curious if you ever felt pressure to avoid women's issues and women's stories in order to compete in that man's world.

Pat Mitchell: From the very beginning to the very last job. And I know that's not the news you wanted to hear. But it is the reality from the very first position at WBC in Boston. I was told right off, “Stay away from women's stories, do not bring up women's issues, and do not bring a photograph of your son to your office.” So everything that was about my life experiences, and what I was seeing with women in my community around me, was off limits as far as the men who ran the television station were concerned. So that's what I meant by organizing the women because one of us may be a pest, two of us as a coalition, three of us is an alliance, to quote my good friend Gloria Steinem, which is true, one of us can't do it. That's why when there was just one in each television station, we really had issues and challenges to put forward women's stories. But when three of us came together and said, “You know what we're going to do? We’re going to do a whole day of programming, exclusively devoted to the lives and stories of women.” And we managed to convince them to do this. It took a while, but we just never accepted no for an answer.

Sabrina Merage Naim: It really revolutionized, at the time, the media industry where what you were doing was not accepted, not even on the agenda. And we're curious to understand, what was the impetus for you to knowingly walk into the lion's den - a place where you knew you were going to have so much pushback, where you would be dismissed, where this just didn't happen, it wasn’t a priority - for you to risk all of that to go and do this? What was that?

Pat Mitchell: Passion for what I believed the difference that such a show could make. Loving the opportunity to work with women. I had always enjoyed having women producers and the community of women and my women friends were a renewable source of energy in my life. So the opportunity to do that with a good friend and a producer, and to break new ground. I mean, it didn't exist, and it was outrageous to me. So that was a hard lesson to learn, but one that I took forward after that.

Kassia Binkowski: You are an example of somebody who's been able to claw their way into a position of influence, and one of the few women who've really risen to the top of the media industry. Do you think women in the media industry who have the influence that you do have any obligation to create space for the stories and elevate the stories of women?

Pat Mitchell: I most certainly do. I emphatically do believe that women who find themselves or who have worked themselves into positions of power and influence have an absolute responsibility to drop the ladder behind them as they move up. And that means mentoring, in a really significant and real way. That means sponsoring in a real and significant way. And that means advocating for women every step of the way. When I first brought up a woman's name inside a corporate boardroom to come on, even all the other women looked at me and said, "don't play the women's card that's going to isolate you.” And it reminded me of 1971 in that television station, when people were saying “Stay away from women's issues.” We have a responsibility to each other, we really do. And when we show up for each other, that's the biggest lever we have for change.

This excerpt was provided by our dear friends Sabrina Merage Naim and Kassia Binkowski. Together they are building Breaking Glass - a podcast and platform for individuals changing the narrative for women around the world. Head to Breaking Glass to listen to the full episode or read the complete conversation. Breaking Glass is a production of Evoke Media which exists in order to elevate the people and stories that are working to make the world a more unified and equitable place.